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June 16, 2005

tie me up, tie me down

Lee Goldberg doesn't like fanfic. A few observations: (1) Lee's entitled to dislike fanfic (just as I am entitled to like it); (2) he is getting a lot of attention not so much for professing his dislike, but for arguing that fanfic is wrong:

I would never write a book using someone else's characters unless I was hired to do so. It would never even occur to me because the characters aren't mine.

(3) Lee himself writes novelizations or tie-ins, where a television show is turned into a novel after the fact. He summarizes his position on the difference between fanfic and tie-ins here.

Then there's Naomi Novik (who has a forthcoming historical novel, the first in a series called Temeraire). Naomi likes fanfic (thanks to Rydra Wong for the link), and she has made a point that for me, summarizes it all:

I for one would be thrilled to know that people loved my characters and my world enough to want to come on in and play, not to mention that I would be wildly grateful for the free publicity. I would love for people to put up posters and make costumes and invent their own stories and fantasize about my characters. If they did, that would mean I was doing something fundamentally right -- that I was creating characters that people wanted to make part of the shared culture by which we communicate with one another. And if enough people feel that way about my characters, I am going to get to keep doing this work that I love.

I would add to Naomi's point the following: if you are a good storyteller, and you create a world with real characters in it, those characters can't stay within your control. It's just not possible. You can try to legislate their whereabouts, but Romeo won't be tied down, nor will Elizabeth Bennett or Seven of Nine or John Crichton. Once a good character has been set free in the minds and imaginations of your readers, that's it.

Can you stop somebody writing a novel about a character you've created and making money off of it? I could, if the occasion arose, but I doubt it will. Because this isn't about money. It's about the story. So I'm with Naomi. If readers want to play with the characters I put out in the world, I am gratified to have done my work so well.

June 16, 2005 11:36 AM

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I feel less guilty about puddling around in the Farscape Universe as David Kemper and co seem to pubically support fanfic (and fan art etc):

"They're expanding the relationships into a place that we don't have time to do on television," says David Kemper, executive producer of "Farscape," the acclaimed Sci Fi cable drama whose fervent fandom still churns out stories online two years after cancellation.

Like other TV professionals, Kemper says he doesn't read fan fiction - studios forbid it, fearing lawsuits over "borrowed" ideas - but he knows what it is and that it means a valuable core of loyal fans. He also understands the urge that makes them write. Kemper loved "Star Trek" as a kid."

Posted by: Meredith at June 16, 2005 05:39 PM

Whedon didn't mind fanfic, either, and encouraged it in rather oblique terms whenever possible (to the studio's utter frustration); he felt much as you do about the fact that it's possibly the highest compliment a writer can get.

That said, I tend to see one-person-created stories as being under the aegis of the author's discretion. If Rowling doesn't want NC-17 fanfic, I think it's perogative to say so. But if it's Buffy, or Farscape, or any other creation that's really an amalgamation of twenty, forty, eighty people (from writers to directors to editors to actors to soundtrack people), then it's much harder--for me, at least--to give credibility to one person saying, "you can't play with this!" Why not? It was already collaborative; a fanfiction writer is continuing the process. The difference is that what I write...is not collaborative. It's all mine, which is why I get uncomfy at people who fanfic books as opposed to movies or television series.

On the other hand, if people were to start cosplaying my characters and creating fanart and writing fanfiction, I would be delighted, as long as fanficcers understand these remain my characters and in the end I get the final say on what happens in canon. But I'd still be estatic if I got my own category on fanfiction.net... just don't tell me who's getting slashed. *wink*

Posted by: sGreer at June 16, 2005 09:25 PM

I have to agree (even if I'm not an author) that fanfic does nothing but help the author. I frequent far more Harry Potter FanFic sites than I probably should, and am guilty of writing a fanfic or to of my own.

I see it as a great tool for fledgling writers to practice their craft. If I'm trying to write Cannon, I can't get Snape mean enough, or convey the way Hermione feels about her friends it exactly the same way. But I don't have to spend time describing the world around my characters, because if I say "They were standing outside the Shreeking Shack thinking of ways to get Malfoy.", I don't have to explain where the shack is, why they are near it, or explain why no one else is near them.

This way, I can focus on creating my characters, and not worry so much on location (which I know is important, but I personally have a characterization problem).

Also, the influx of fanfiction (there are more HP stories on fanfiction.net than in any other catergory), keeps reader interest on the novels them selves. Yes, I am addicted to fanfic, but I will have the 6th book in my hands on 7/16. Before I found fanfiction, I could wait until the paperback came out before I purchased the book.

Not now. There are so many variations on how the characters evolve, that I want to see how Rowling does it herself.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry so long, I'm usually just a lurker.

Posted by: lisa at June 17, 2005 11:21 AM

Today's news flash:
"Lee Goldberg Doesn't Like Fanfic"

Reminds me of a running gag of the 1970's "And finally, tonight, from Madrid: General Franco is STILL DEAD"

(Which, these days, usually leads to the baffled question, "Momma, who the heck is General Franco?" There's a parallel lurking in there somewhere, Lee, honey...)

So, hm, for writing to be Writing, the Writer must not draw on characters that Belong to someone else, nor upon plots, I suppose? Last week I ran across a very serious Victorian catalogue of The Sixty-Eight Thematic Motifs Underpinning All Literature which I meant to send to you. Now, of course, it is nowhere to be found. But in googling around in search of it, other good things appeared. So, links for you, my precious:

Evil Overload Automatic Random Plot Generator

and the theory underlying itL

not to mention the Victorian Sex Cry Generator

and to push the Creative Reuse theme just a bit further: thisintothat

and also liviodemarci

Oh, and you probably sent me this one in the first place, but, I still like it: hack your way

Posted by: robynbender at June 19, 2005 10:51 AM

BTW, what's the trick for tagging a url inside one of these comments so that it appears on the comments page as a hotlink?

Posted by: robynbender at June 19, 2005 10:52 AM

Robyn -- I like the headline. I think it should be a permanent fixture. Or maybe not. Also, good links which I have turned into the kind of links you wanted. You've got to do the whole code thing to get 'em that way.

Posted by: sara at June 19, 2005 12:00 PM

This Just In:

LEE GOLDBERG STILL DOESN'T LIKE (UNPAID) FANFIC

FYI: The EO Plot Generator link isn't working yet.

And, seriously, is this tagging something one might learn to do safely at home? Because I have figured out how to make a paragraph break and to bold type (p or b between carats) and I thought the hotlink was a matter of "url" and "/url" between carats, but, sadly, NO.

Posted by: robynbender at June 19, 2005 01:44 PM

Robyn's headline re UNPAID fanfic has me thinking...is the scenario different if a paid author participates in unpaid fanfic? Does someone who is published formally have a moral/ethical/professional obligation to forgo writing fanfic (as opposed to reading it)?

Posted by: Meredith at June 19, 2005 04:35 PM

Meredith, good question. Does it make me a hypocrite to want to write fanfic on collaborative works (movies, television) when I'm also someone who wants to have some say in what happens to my own one-person-created characters?

Posted by: sGreer at June 19, 2005 07:13 PM

sGreer - I have no idea where the line is - or even if there is one...?

My own feeling is that hypocrisy can be largely avoided by showing respect for whichever characters you are working with - and also for those who 'own them'.

Interestingly (cos you do think about this at work!) I've realised that the only fanfic I frequent is that of television shows - Buffy, Farscape, BSG. I find most written 'universes' enough. I do not and will not touch Harry Potter fanfic, for example; Rowling provides a rich enough universe for me.

Posted by: Meredith at June 19, 2005 07:48 PM

One of the reasons I've never even remotely thought of HP fanfic is because there are so few holes. I've written BtVS fanfic (which as I said, Joss considered a compliment regardless of Fox's attitude), and animanga fanfic, but only for series in which the massive holes beg for someone to plug them.

There seem to be two types of fanfic out there. One is the kind written by people who want to see what didn't happen on-screen. They want Angel and Buffy in all their nekkid glory, or even just the character sketches of Willow and Tara on a lazy Saturday morning.

The other kind is the "gotta explain this" need. The BtVS fandom exploded in its 6th and 7th seasons, when the writers picked up and dropped plotlines like a four-year old with pickup sticks. The fans, understandably so, began retconning at a rate rivaling the pathetic jobs the writers were doing, and thus the ficdom went from minor to explosive. One of my favorite fandoms is ten years old, and the series is littered with plotholes just waiting to be exploited by fans -- and after ten years, fans are still finding new takes on old plotholes.

Given that knowledge, I'd rather know that fans are writing fanfic of my stuff (if they must) because they just want a little longer to enjoy the characters. If I had the suspicion it were the second reason for a fluffy of fics, I'd definitely want to hide under a rock!

Posted by: sGreer at June 20, 2005 04:27 PM

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